just heard this on cnn.......poor guy had been battling alzheimers for the past 5 years.
he was 84 years old.
i remember the first time i saw him in ben hur, during the chariot race.
I love how SOME liberal A-HOLES like Michael Moore, etc., like to hold him up as this crazy right winger, etc., when they don't realize that he marched with MLK jr. and was instrumental when head of the SAG, etc., in getting black technicians into the union, etc., did tons for civil rights
you're exactly right.... he was a liberal when it was a noble word and counted for something. Great actor...better human being...he'll be missed by many. 
so, the people in my congo expended hours and hours distributing the invitations, but the attendance was the same as always (actually a little less than other years).
how about your congo?
-ootn
I've never been a dub, but I got two invitations this week from the "door-to-door" ministry - one in English and one in Spanish (I converse a little in Spanish, so the woman gave me an invite). The Spanish invite was yesterday, Saturday.... not much notice (a few hours...whatever). Too bad I had plans.........hmmmmmmm
in the wake of lovelylil's recent threads on the "historical jesus," a side question.. let's assume, for the sake of the discussion, that the four canonical gospels are not historical accounts of jesus' life, but a much later elaboration of christian faith in narrative form -- there are many reasons for such a proposal, but i'm not going into them right now -- let's just assume.. what do you think would be better or worse to find out in the historical field, from the perspective of christian faith:.
1. that there was no "historical jesus" at all, and that the gospels are essentially a religious myth made (hi)story, "the word made flesh" so to say;.
2. that there was a "historical jesus" completely different from the christian saviour -- for example, a galilean apocalyptic prophet and political zealot, trying to cleanse the nation and the temple from both the roman occupation and ritual disorders, with no interest at all in starting a new universal (i.e.
I'm just asking which is the more tolerable, or untolerable, from a believer's perspective .
I would think that only those two choices could be made from a "passive" believer rather then one who has had a genuine spiritual experience that confirms their faith. It would seem that for a passive believer either choice might be a big deal for the short term, but ultimately they would move on with an attitude of "whatever" and "what's next".
everyone is familiar with the biblical legend of how the magi were led to jesus' birthplace by following a roaming star that came to rest over bethlehem.
i would like to know if there are any recordings outside of the bible of this event.
are there any ancient chinese, persian, mayan, etc.
How about this article from 2001:
December 27, 2001 Posted: 4:08 PM EST (2108 GMT)
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By Richard Stenger
CNN Sci-Tech
(CNN) --A U.S. astronomer said he has uncovered the first reference to the star of Bethlehem outside the Bible, in the 4th-century writings of a Christian convert who wanted to hide the astrological roots of the celestial phenomenon.
For centuries, scientists and scholars have debated about the nature of the Biblical light that led the Magi to the newborn Jesus. Some have suggested a comet or supernova.
But Michael Molnar concluded that the star was actually a double eclipse of Jupiter roughly 2,000 years ago.
The former Rutgers University researcher came up with the idea while studying a symbolic star map on an ancient Roman empire coin from Syria, which depicts Aries the ram and other celestial symbols.
Molnar, deducing that Aries was the sign of the Jews, figured that ancient astrologers would have searched that constellation for a sign of a savior of the kingdom of Judea.
Computer modeling backed up his claim. But Molnar lacked historical proof until now, he said.
The Mathesis, a book written in 334 A.D. by Firmicus Maternus, an astrologer of Constantine the Great, described an astrological event involving an eclipse of Jupiter by the moon in Aries, and said that it signified the birth of a divine king.
"Maternus did not mention Jesus' name," Molnar said. "But Roman astrology was a popular craze at the time and everyone reading the book would have known the reference was to Jesus and that the astrological event was the star of Bethlehem."
He failed to bring up the name because he did not wish to offend the sensibilities of members of his new religion, who thought that the Christian God, not the stars, governed the destiny of humankind.
But old beliefs still held great sway in the Roman Empire.
"Being a pagan who had converted to Christianity in his lifetime, Firmicus was torn. Hence his use of astrology to support the Christian story, but in a veiled way," Molnar said.
The unconventional astronomer has gained the respect of notable Biblical historians.
"I take Molnar's work quite seriously," said Owen Gingerich of Harvard University. "Anything he comes up with along these lines has to be considered as being very likely correct."
Gushed Bradley Schaefer of Yale University, in a review Molnar's book, 'The Star of Bethlehem': "(It) has stunning new insight and approach, which finally gives a confident answer to a question that has fascinated all Christians through the ages."
after several years 'out' i can't be the only one who still gets a bit pissed off to hear 'oh so clever' apostates slagging off jw's for being dumb, stupid and worse.
grow up!
the beliefs of jehovah's witnesses are certainly stupid but then i'd say the same for all christian belief just as many of you might condemn my atheistic, evolutionary postion as being nonsense.
"Stupid is as stupid does."
- - Forrest Gump's Mama
(oops... sorry Caliber )
we hung a large american flag on our house.
i must say it looks real nice esp when it waves.
i hope they do my street soon in the door to door work and ole glory waves at them proudly.
Wonderful. How about adding some speakers to the roof blaring out "God Bless America".... it would be a nice touch, don't you think?
-how powerful the thought of an afterlife is, if you can make people believe in it!
what power would religions have over people if it weren't for the teachings of an afterlife?
while reading crisis of conscience way back, it dawned on me that most of the things that separate 'apostate' thinking from jw thinking, and makes us appalled at some of the teachings, is simply that active jws truly believe that following the organization's guidance will lead to an ever lasting afterlife.
I believe in an afterlife whether one's religous or not. However, like you, I think that living the "here and now"
is the most important thing for us in this life. I've never been a dub, but when I use to discuss with my JW friend their belief in an afterlife, it never made sense to me. So the 144,000 have spirits and go to be with God after this life, but all other people have to be good JWs for them to be "remember" in God's mind and be restored to everlasting life? In other words, you're dead as a doornail unless you have enough service hours for God to remember you..... what's that? And why do the 144,000 have spirits and all others don't?
some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!
the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.
now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..
Seems that the doubting Thomas was convinced otherwise (and he knew Jesus):
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
i just joined this forum today after reading the comments on today's watchtower (which i have to attend in about an hour unfortunately).
i was raised in "the truth" and it was only recently that i began to listen to a close friend of mine as he pointed out the secrets and lies that is the watchtower society and governing body.
even though he was informing me for almost a year, he never gave up on me.
Hey there Icing Heart.... and WELCOME ! I'll be looking forward to your posts!
my neice who had cancer died at 3:00 a.m. my sister just called and told me.
i'll put up the obituiaries when it's posted.
no need for responses.
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